MyDD :: To Hillary Supporters

To Hillary Supporters

by stevent, Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 04:34:59 PM EST

WE were right all along. Hillary voted nay for the cloture and nay for the final bill. Obama voted yes for them. We have to remember 6 months ago that it was Hillary Clinton who supported Dodd in filibustering first before Obama decided to do his part.

So take that to all Obama supporters who thinks Obama is more progressive than Hillary. Now to highlight what our progressive movement have lost:-

4th Amendment - FISA
Gun control - DC Handgun ban
Death Penalty - For child rapist
Pro-Choice - Late term abortion (Mental health problems)
Universal Healthcare - Obama ran against Hillary's UHC plan

My question to everyone, where is the line? When will be hold Obama accountable? If we don't do it this season, we will never have a chance. I don't think anyone wants a repeat of Kennedy-Carter fiasco which cost us to lose to Reagan. So now is the only chance we got to ask Obama what are we to him. Are we his progressive base or are we his 21st century Hollywood fundraising club?

And kudos for Hillary for power playing and doing what is right. I've always believe that she is a progressive. And to those who thinks she is not, i ask you to look at her plans again. Universal Healthcare, Environment, Economy, Gay rights and many more subtopics.

Compare to Obama's policies - Universal Healthcare is not a solution, 2005 Cheney Energy Bill, Social Security is facing bankruptcy, yes to gay marriage only because it is a state right but no to it personally.

So it seems that we have no choice as the alternative is worse. But when will we actually play our role to hold Obama accountable to our values. Obama opt out of public financing and thus the only leverage we have on him is fundings itself. We should withhold fundings till he embraces important progressive values. There are many months to go till the GE and i hope our netroots have learnt a lesson from this. Even Obama cannot be trusted.

P.S. The ACLU has decided to challenge this law in court. Lets support the ACLU. And this is another chance for Obama to show leadership. I would expect a constitutional law professor to support the constitution.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, FISA (all tags)

Permalink :: 95 Comments :: Post a Comment

Iran fired some missiles today (2.00 / 3)

Time to obliterate them? It's what a good progressive would do.

by JJE on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 04:37:20 PM EST

Re: Iran fired some missiles today (2.00 / 1)

Wait a minute Mr. Diarist. You are incorrectly assuming that Obama is a progressive. He is a centrist who happens to agree with most not all of progressive agendas. . The only successful president we have had is a centrist one.

Obama said he agrees with progressives and most of you folks think that progressive agenda is all tied up in the issues you quoted. These are new agendas that progressives are fighting against.

The progressive agenda is as a majority one on economic policies over foreign policy. So it's not fair to label Obama as a wanna be progressive because of his stance on FISA.

Over and over again this FISA is being tied as the `be all' litmus test of the progressive movement. WRONG!

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought you were ignoring me (2.00 / 1)

But we actually agree. Obama is a centrist. So is Clinton. Foolish to pretend otherwise.

by JJE on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:24:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought you were ignoring me (none / 0)

Wait a minute Mr. Diarist

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:31:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Aliveandkickin, so fucking predictable. (2.00 / 7)

Hey troll, love how you t'rated hundreds of my older comments.

Don't you have a life outside of this blog?

If folks could spare the mojo, please uprate my past comments please. (lost my TU status)

Something should be done about this tool soon.

Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!

by spacemanspiff on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:52:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Aliveandkickin, so fucking predictable. (2.00 / 3)

I TR'ed you?

You are the lowest denominator of an answer troll here. I had absolutely nothing to do with your status. Go ask the admins to do an IP check on those who did.

In fact had you not come running in here accusing me of such a thing. I would continue to ignore you.

I leave you to your teenage mutant ninja moment.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 06:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Aliveandkickin, so fucking predictable. (2.00 / 2)

Your defensiveness is so parabolic, that it's crystal clear who you are. No one is buying what your selling.

by HardWorkingWhitePerson on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Aliveandkickin, so fucking predictable. (1.00 / 1)

You insistent is so hyper reactive that I'm almost enjoying your delusions.

The biggest winner in this is aliveandkickin.

You guys have made him a legend around here. I can't tell you how many times spacemanspiff and characters like him ---have gone around today accusing so many posters `You are aliveandkickin' .

Don't believe me look up spacemaspiffs profile and comments for the day. He is jumping diary to dairy calling people aliveandkickin all day.

You can't buy entertainment of this caliber.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:12:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

done. (2.00 / 2)

tu back?

"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg

by canadian gal on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 08:53:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Si. Pero menos que antes. (2.00 / 2)

I'm back sort of. The moment I decided to leave aliveandkickin went crazy in my past comments. It would suck to lose this blog to the trolls. I could also tell they were trying to gang up on you and especially sricki and even though I leave my more insightful and better thought out comments for other blogs I decided to stick around. MyDD is my home base and their are some great people on here who I would miss dearly. I'm still hoping for the new ratings system though. It's pathetic the way trolls get mojo'd by sockpuppets around here.

Today has been a good day for REAL Hillary supporters (FISA vote) but a really bad one for the ones on this blog (over the top PUMA trolls). It's nauseating how d-enders jack Hillary's name to spew hate like they are in a NoKKKwarter comments section. Some of the most overtop and absurd comments in a long time. It's been funny as hell though.

Love the new diary by the way!

Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!

by spacemanspiff on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:15:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Centrist - I wish - looks more like a conservative (none / 0)

as each day goes by!

by suzieg on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:31:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iran fired some missiles today (2.00 / 1)

You need to de-clench. REally Republican framing and not useful to any argument, especially the ridiculous one made in this diary. Let the rotten bait lie on the floor untouched, IMHO.

by Jeter on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:18:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 3)

What are you talking about.

Neither Hillary or Obama participated in the Filibuster.

So you are saying they are both weak knee-buckling typical Democrats, just Obama a little more so.

Hmmm, just one word for your diary:

WeakSauce

by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 04:37:32 PM EST

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 2)

Just to be clear, I've never seen a "progressive platform" with every single one of those planks. I'm pretty sure that the last week or so has shown that numerous people on this site, who consider themselves progressive, may disagree with one or more of the items on your list.

by rfahey22 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 04:39:54 PM EST

Odd you should say that (2.00 / 1)

Because as far as #3, I'm unequivocally for the death penalty.

by Neef on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 04:52:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Odd you should say that (none / 0)

I'll never trust the death penalty. The rate of error in putting innocent people to death is just too high. I'm sorry but I'll have to decide with mainstream America on this one.

by Check077 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 04:56:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I respect that (none / 0)

I'm just saying what I believe.

As far as the rate of false positives for innocents, that's a valid criticism of our entire system, and it applies equally to all penalties. In theory, a life sentence gives an innocent man more time to work on his appeal. In practice, (again IMHO) an innocent life thrown into supermax for 30 years of brutalization is no more or less horrific than the DP.

by Neef on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:12:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I respect that (none / 0)

My not-so-humble opinion is that whether or not 30 years of life as an innocent in prison is better or worse than death as an innocent by lethal injection is something only the innocent person can answer.

I would be all in favor of letting the prisoners decide whether or not they wanted to live or die, as long as the choice was theirs alone. I suspect nearly all of them would choose to live, but regardless: only they have the right to decide whether or not they want to live as an imprisoned innocent or die as one.

Your opinion on it is utterly irrelevant. After you are an innocent person in prison, THEN you can make that decision, and ONLY for yourself.

As for the level of error being the same for all penalties, that is the real issue with the death penalty, and why I oppose it: it is the one penalty where, after it is imposed, it is impossible for the penalized person to ever recover any of their life.

Now, if the government could be sued for wrongful death if it were proven that they had executed an innocent, and they could be made to pay through the nose, I expect they'd be more careful. As it stands, they can't be. There is no penalty at all when an innocent man is murdered in prison, because our Supreme Court doesn't give crap whether a person is actually innocent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrera_v._ Collins).

I happen to think they should. I think we all should.

In my not-so-humble opinion.

by SuGeAtARC on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:10:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lets not redefine "opinion" (none / 0)

I also have an opinion on whether death by impalement would be worse than death by drowning. Does that have ANY bearing on the fact that a person in those situations might have a different opinion? Does that confer ANY power on me to choose one of those options for someone else? Of course not. Lets not start conflating opinions with preferences and capabilities, ok?

The question if whether someone is a child rapist is different from the question of their punishment. Obviously I don't believe innocent people should be killed. I also don't believe innocent people should be incarcerated, yet I do not advocate emptying San Quentin. I am willing to accept some level of unfair punishment, and so is everyone who believes in legal penalties. Unless one is so naive as to believe the system is 100% accurate.

Only a true anarchist can claim to consistently err on the side of the innocent, and I doubt many of us here are anarchists.

by Neef on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:39:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Odd you should say that (none / 0)

Yeah, I don't have a problem if these are positions held by the diarist, but you can't just retroactively cast each of these specific developments as a "with us or against us" proposition. I'm not sure how I feel about the death penalty for child rapists, for example.

by rfahey22 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 04:58:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Odd you should say that (none / 0)

there's an off the cuff remark to be made about the word "retroactive" and FISA

by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL!!! (2.00 / 5)

Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!

by spacemanspiff on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 04:49:46 PM EST

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 9)

STEVENT THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS DIARY!! YOU ARE SO RIGHT THAT OBAMA IS JUST LIKE GEORGE W HE MIGHT AS WELL BE RUNNING FOR BUSH'S THIRD TERM!!!!! OBAMA WANTS TO TAKE FREEDOM AWAY AND FORECE PREGNANCY'S AND NO DEMOCRAT SHOULD EVER VOTE FOR THAT!!! OMG HE IS AWFUL!!! I HOPE HE LOOSES TO MCCAIN BIGTIME LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!!

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:01:35 PM EST

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 3)

The bolding is a nice touch, you should keep that.

"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC

by skohayes on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:47:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 2)

true enough, and the improper pluralization is a nice touch, but he gets style points off for not including a '1' in the trail of exclamation points.

by semiquaver on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 08:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (none / 0)

he gets style points off for not including a '1' in the trail of exclamation points.

cliche.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 08:38:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (none / 0)

AT LEAST A 1 CAN ACTUALLY HAPPEN!!!!1ONE

by semiquaver on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:48:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She gets credit here, but (2.00 / 2)

this part:

We have to remember 6 months ago that it was Hillary Clinton who supported Dodd in filibustering first before Obama decided to do his part.

is untrue.

Obama came out with his statement first (not that statements matter much).

by Geekesque on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:04:49 PM EST

Re: She gets credit here, but (2.00 / 1)

Are you saying that statements are just words?

by cuppajoe on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:35:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary who? (2.00 / 4)

Never heard of her.

I was with Obama from the start.

by SpanishFly on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:08:37 PM EST

Re: Hillary who? (1.00 / 2)

Apparently she's some loser who stayed in the Democratic nominating race about 4 months after she was mathematically eliminated.

by Lance Bryce on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 1)

Republicans supported George no matter what he did. They made excuses for him in order to justify their support; wasn't that ridiculous?

by soyousay on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:29:48 PM EST

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 1)

Wow, making that analogy to Senator Clinton, how all such as you, Soyousay, NEVER said a bad word about her here.

This seems like a day for you to be celebrating, not dragging out your past sins.

You WERE talking about your unlimted devotion to Senator Clinton, weren't you?

Our long national nightmare is over...in 17 days!

by WashStateBlue on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:34:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You have to realize (none / 0)

That many people supported (and STILL support) Bush because they agreed with him. I live in Western PA, and work with some of those people.

Don't let the extreme self-selection of a Progressive 'net blog fool you into thinking that Bush's public policy is way out on Mars someplace. I realize you were making a metaphor for Obama, but the very premise of the metaphor is flawed.

What seems like "excuses" to you, may be simple agreement.

by Neef on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:40:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (none / 0)

And the Republicans managed to elect GWB to the presidency, where he made all their dreams come true. Your point?

by semiquaver on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 08:01:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (1.50 / 8)

Remember when the Obots mantra was, "Hillary, that woman will do or say anything to get elected" ..

Well, Obama just voted to trash your 4th amendment rights to privacy so that he can get elected.

As much as I dislike him, I would have voted for him in the GE ... not now, not ever.

by jrole on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:39:23 PM EST

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 5)

That's nice. I'm sure President McCain will be much more respectful of your Fourth Amendment rights.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 06:14:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 2)

Neither McCain nor Obama has any respect for my 4th amendment rights. But I, and hopefully many Americand do, and that's what counts.

I don't have to vote for the lesser of two evils. I have another choice... not voting for evil.

by jrole on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:08:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 1)

that and 8 dollars will buy you a gallon of gas in about a year... but hey, whatever makes you happy.

Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.

by JDF on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:08:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 1)

I'd just like to say that the list of "what our progressive movement have lost" is completely ridiculous. Clearly, Obama is one hundred percent in control of the Supreme Court a full six months prior to the possibility that he might take office.

And unless you've been living under a rock, which some Obama supporters seem to, everyone knows that Obama is an insider moderate calculating politician who has always supported the death penalty and been against true universal health care, and until he's elected with our help, there is no reason for him to be accountable to any of our opinions.

How the hell did this diary get rec'd anyway?

by The Best Blogger on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:42:58 PM EST

Re: To Hillary Supporters (none / 0)

Oh I see, because five people recommended it. Where has all the readership gone?

by The Best Blogger on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:47:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

When are (2.00 / 1)

many of you going to realize that the rec system here is not done just by recs. It is also weighted by the number of comments along with recs.

So... the more you comment in a diary that has been rec'd a few times, the more it moves up. Especially when weighted against older diaries with less of both.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:42:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When are (1.50 / 2)

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's based solely on recs. This is a very old version of Scoop, and as far as I know, Scoop has never included other factors in getting diaries recommended. In fact, I recall numerous diaries that ended up on the rec list when there was only 2 or 3 comments.

I've come to realize that wretched diaries like this end up on the wreck list not because of their content, but because they serve as a "roll call" or "check-in" for a certain group. It's almost comical to see some of the absentee members who recommended this thing...it's a veritable rogue's gallery of inveterate trolls, PUMAs and the Obama-deranged.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:34:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just another McTroll diary (2.00 / 3)

by Beren on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:52:48 PM EST

Wow (2.00 / 5)

Are we really going to do this for the next eight years? Really?

It's over dude.

Hillary was great today. I'm still glad Obama won the primary for many reasons, but kudos to Hillary for doing the right thing today.

by Renie on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:55:17 PM EST

Oh, Gosh, we musta voted for the wrong candidate!! (2.00 / 3)

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, StevenT! I'm sure you wanted to hear that.

Maybe you should write a few hundred more diaries about Obama versus Hillary and who would make the better candidate. Sure, the nomination is all over, but my candidate rocks and yours sucks!

If you need help writing more diaries, I'm sure you can call on these people.

by Dumbo on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:24:18 PM EST

Re: Oh, Gosh (2.00 / 1)

Now, now. Don't be so sensitive. Put those little hands over those little eyes, and don't read.

by Scotch on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:21:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Gosh (2.00 / 1)

Really? So you've never defended Hillary in an unfair diary? You've never criticized the diarist? And heck, didn't you acknowledge upthread that this particular diary is pretty ridiculous?

Hey, I'm all in favor of people keeping their negative comments out of pro-candidate diaries, but this ain't one of those. No one's going to keep silent when someone masquerading as a Democrat states on a progressive blog that there's no difference between our nominee and George freaking Bush.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:39:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is not a PRO-CANDIDATE DIARY. (2.00 / 1)

In order to have a PRO-CANDIDATE DIARY, one must have a CANDIDATE. And, since the nomination has been decided (I hope we don't have to argue that, because it gets so epistemological), we only have one candidate.

So, this is not a PRO-CANDIDATE DIARY. The whole point of this diary is: "I still say my candidate WAS better than your candidate, so there! Pfffffffft!" A never-ending stream of this shit from people that won't move on. FISA is a big issue, and I give Hillary credit for voting correctly yesterday. But the nomination fight between her and Obama is OVER. Get OVER IT.

(This is not directed at you, Crooner).

by Dumbo on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 07:22:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Gosh (2.00 / 1)

Actually, I acknowledged upthread that the particular comment I was replying to was stupid, not the diary. And I object to the random labeling of posters that people object to as trolls. That is a reflection of the labelers mentality, not the writers mentality.

by Scotch on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:27:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Boo. (none / 0)

Stupid, unnecessary photos, illustrations.

by susie on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 02:30:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 2)

Huh. I wonder how Obama would've voted if not constrained by the need to play the election-year games. Certainly, we all know Senator Clinton would never have partaken in such shenanigans. Poppycock, I say.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:29:01 PM EST

Re: To Hillary Supporters (2.00 / 1)

Holy crap! You're alive!

Welcome back...you've been missed.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:39:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (none / 0)

Yeah, moving, no internet, baby taking-care-of. You know how it is.

Serious question- Is This Snark?

by ragekage on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:09:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

wedge troll (none / 0)

just so you know. I do not believe in the death penalty for anyone. If one person is wrongly convicted and executed, then that is one to many.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:38:59 PM EST

Re: wedge troll (none / 0)

Could you please clarify your post? I can't tell your true intentions, and I would hate to hand out a troll or hide rating that wasn't deserved.

by SuGeAtARC on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:29:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (none / 0)

thx kevin, I didnt know we had to comment and rec to make diary "valuable".

you madam Hillary make us supporters proud. We thank you for what you represent, and feel honored to have been there with you ever since you started the campaign, and stood for the values you believed in. Thank you once again in trying to save the country, its constitution and its values.

by gladiatorsback on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:52:17 PM EST

Re: To Hillary Supporters (none / 0)

WOW!!! It's been about a month or so since I've been able to recommend a diary!!!

THANK YOU.

by nikkid on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:05:53 AM EST

Re: To Hillary Supporters (none / 0)

And kudos for Hillary for power playing and doing what is right. I've always believe that she is a progressive. And to those who thinks she is not, i ask you to look at her plans again. Universal Healthcare, Environment, Economy, Gay rights and many more subtopics.

Environment? That's why she supported McCain's gas tax insanity during the primary?

She ran a Fox News campaign... that's why I didn't supporter her... but, now it turns out that Obama is running the same GE campaign she would have... so, what was the point of his candidacy in the first place?

It sucks... I'm not happy.. If I wanted Bill Clinton 1996, I would have voted for his wife... who, BTW, I'm sure would have voted for FISA if she were the nominee.... she loved portraying herself as a hawk, so I have no doubt she would have been proud of that... probably would have advocated coastal drilling, too... she loved co-opting right wing talking points...

But, apparently, so does Obama... so, why did we even bother...

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:30:58 AM EST

Re: To Hillary Supporters (none / 0)

Ummm.. if you would like to categorize it as she is supporting McCain's gas tax insanity and you have to understand that Bush and Obama were in the same side on the gas issue as well.

If you actually take the time to read the column written by Paul Krugman, Hillary's removal of gas tax is different than McCain as Hillary's plan is paid for by enforcing the collection of taxes not paid to the government from the oil companies. Bush disagreed with this. What about you?

by stevent on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 03:11:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To Hillary Supporters (none / 0)

It doesn't matter... it still embraces the right wing notion that reducing taxes will solve all society's ills...

Obviously, Barack's hands are unclean on this one, too, with his middle class tax cuts.. but, he's holding the line on the environment... at least for now....

Bleh... it doesn't seem to matter... this whole primary affair didn't change one darn thing.... it seems that our candidates still insist on campaigning as republican-lites, no matter who they are....

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 03:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

AUMF (2.00 / 1)

'nuff said

Stop H8

by mikeinsf on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:36:10 AM EST

Re: AUMF (none / 0)

You do know that Obama did NOT vote against AUMF, right?

Just checking, because it seems lots of his "supporters" don't realize that.

by SophieL on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 07:57:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: AUMF (none / 0)

He never supported the war. Stop trying to suggest otherwise.

Stop H8

by mikeinsf on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 07:59:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: AUMF (2.00 / 1)

Can you read?! I suggested no such thing. I said:

You do know that Obama did NOT vote against AUMF, right?

by SophieL on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:46:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: AUMF (none / 0)

Of course I know that. So what's your point, then?

Stop H8

by mikeinsf on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:26:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Folks - Obama is our nominee (none / 0)

It is not appropriate to tear him down. He is the best hope for better government in Washington.

by activatedbybush on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:23:34 AM EST

Let the PUMA morons have their (none / 0)

day of gloating. It's all they have.

by Geekesque on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:37:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't understand the Puma mindset (none / 0)

Incredibly irrational. It's back to the childhood notion that "well, since you took my toy away I am going to throw your toy in the garbage (even though I'd like to play with it)."

It's difficult for me to immagine that there are too many Clinton supporters who would objectively see John McCain as a better option on the issues.

by activatedbybush on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:22:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They have the mindset of children. (none / 0)

That's exactly their problem. They don't care about issues. They only care about their own emotional gratification.

by Geekesque on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:25:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They don't care about the issues? (2.00 / 1)

Which issues? Health care for all? Telecom immunity? Roe? Separation of church and state?

The thing is, we've been caring about the issues all along. You folks were going for the transformative non-politician. Turns out he's a politician as usual to the bone. Turns out he's the love child of the dirty Chicago political machine. Turns out that he thinks his acceptance speech is the most important thing on the minds of Americans.

This isn't gloating. This is telling you that you guys blew it. We had a chance and you couldn't see the forest for the trees. You drank the Kool-Aid and now you have a hangover. We tried to tell you, but you were too damn cool. I'm not gloating and I'm not dancing. I'm blaming all of you for messing with the country because you didn't give a damn about the issues all along.

Issues. Yeah, right.

by SophieL on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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